This is a great weave of both sides of the controversy surrounding Aasiya Hassan’s murder. Thank you. And best of blessing to the work of Muswah.

Salams Mona,

Mostly good sentiments here, but I wonder why you constantly omit the traditional middle ground? You report on the YouTube imams — who are mainly extremists or simpletons filtered and highlighted by MEMRI, the propaganda organ — as if they are “traditional”, when they are not. Then you ignore the traditionalists, many of whom speak out quite emphatically on violence against women. SunniPath has long had a full section on “domestic violence”, where they state unequivocally that “abuse is not tolerated in Islam” and “you will have to take the initiative before this abuse gets worse. Your husband needs help immediately before he hurts you again. And you need to go elsewhere until he can calm down and understand how wrong his behavior is. Please go to a safe place where your husband cannot come and abuse you. This is crucial, because, trust me, if you stay, it will get worse.” They even acknowledge that “Unfortunately, some of our Muslim brothers, some imams included, don’t understand how serious wife abuse is, and will even implicitly condone it.”

Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad, one of the most renowned traditional Muslim scholars in the world today, has called for a total ban on beating, relying on the reasoning of Ibn Ashur. Any of the other prominent traditional Muslims say much the same thing. “If domestic violence becomes rampant in society and men do not know the limits of the sharia, it is permissible to outlaw any physical striking.” “I believe that we have reached this level in society. Conclusion: Domestic violence is prohibited in Islam, a woman has right to be safe in her home. It is prohibited to put woman or child into a state of fear.”

Similarly, on the issue of divorce, most traditional Muslim scholars set the threshold for wife-initiated divorce quite low, citing the time the Prophet (pbuh) granted a woman a divorce simply because she found her spouse unattractive.

Yet reading your articles, we get no sense of this vast middle ground. There are only the bushy-bearded misogynists on one side, and the liberal modernists on the other.

Incidentally, you misspelled “Musawah”, which I think is an indicator of how forgettable that venture is. If you’re just going to read in your own meanings into the text, why bother with it in the first place? You can’t make religion stronger by watering it down or individualizing it; the more liberal it is, the easier it is for extremists of all stripes to claim validity.

Grand Daughter of a Wahabi writer/historian of Seerat Al Nabi was one of the lady who excited Amina to lead Friday Prayers, what kind of Islam, Quran and freedom/HR youwant to give to Sisters in Islam.
Your type of ladies are not better then those U-Tube Imams who use religion for their personal gains.
I will keep them both in the same camp, Saudi Salafic Suicidal Camp who are brainwashing poor Iraqi girls for suicide attacks.

If you are moderate, tell the WORLD WAHABIS/SALAFIS and SAUDIS are behind all Al-QAEDA inspired ideology.

You’re completely overlooking the intention of these community leaders. How can you assume that the leaders of the Muslim community in North America and elsewhere around the world are not doing what they can to stop domestic abuse and crime in our community, whether its carried by Muslims or not? I can cite from my own local community here in North America where the Imam regularly gives khutbah on the rights allotted to men and women in Islam and how domestic abuse of any kind is against Islam. There are several cases where I have seen this take place. What these leaders tried to do was not say that domestic abuse is wrong, but condemn those who equate Islam to the horrible crimes committed by this maniacal murderer.

Again, you cite two extremes, a minority of “scholars” who the anti-Muslim Islamaphobes have adopted as their key to providing proof that Islam is ‘evil’. However, you time and time again forget to mention mainstream Imams of traditional Sunni thought who have condemned domestic violence and have encouraged love between a husband and a wife. In fact, if it interests you, I can source you to countless other scholars who speak out vehemently against domestic violence. You constantly filter out the grey area that forms the majority of the Muslim community only to lay your concentrations on the extremities, the black and white.

Is domestic violence a problem in the Muslim community? Absolutely, its a problem in every community and as an American-Muslim I feel that its of the utmost importance to provide support to victims of all forms of domestic violence, for Muslims and non-Muslims, men and women.

On another note, I’m deeply sorry for the trouble you had gone through in your past in relation to the domestic abuse and humiliation you suffered. I truly hope that God continues to give you the strength to carry on triumphantly towards the future.

@ Khalid and Ahmed

The main stream traditional scholars such as ISNA members knew that two of Mr.Hassen ex-wife’s had filed divorce based on domestic abuse, Aasiya Hassan was the third wife who was facing domestic. Your both ignoring that Mr.Hassen (and maybe others) “who are known to be violent and abusive still managed to gain a platform at major Muslim conventions throughout the U.S. because he founded Bridges TV.”

Why did we let a man like Mr. Hassan be a leader in our community and support him (even with money)when he was abusive and violent to (Muslim) women? Why did we welcome him with open arms at Muslim conventions and asked him grace us with his presence with speeches and probably even sat on a few boards. Why did the Muslim community defend his actions than by turning a blind eye to the known abuse his wife’s were experiencing? Was it because he had power with Bridges TV and brought money and was that more important? Margari Aziza very well points this out in her blog “How Lack of Accountability (in our community) led to a Rise of a Monster” (http://azizaizmargari.wordpress.com/).

And Muslimah Media Watch has presented and complied many many great posts about this topic in the media at (http://muslimahmediawatch.org/)

We were silent and embraced Mr.Hassen when he was among us in many of our conventions. Did you overlook that because that’s NOT quite emphatically on violence against
women.

Mona, I would go one step further by walking out and complaining when religious leaders are “silent”, just like many were silent with Mr.Hassen abuse of his wife’s.

Where are the Women comments?
Now I know what Musawah is.
I was once at a Political “Breakfast” of a Womens Group.
I was not allowed to speak.

Khalid,

I understand that you’re motivated by good intentions, but I find it disturbing that instead of harshly criticizing what has happened, you dedicate more effort to the defense of traditional Islam instead.

Let’s be honest here.

SunniPath (while indeed moderate and great in many ways) is not representative of traditional Islam. The real traditionalists are the YouTube imams Mona mentions.

Shaikh Abdal Hakim is nowhere near as popular or well-known as al-Qaradawi, who by the way, advocates lots of heinous and repulsive things.

Islamic Traditionalism is the product of bearded fallible men, most of whom are and were immersed in patriarchal, and sometimes even outright chauvinist cultures.

Let’s call a spade a spade. Those traditionalists who defend the rights of women are either a liberal strain or simply paying lip service.

Ahmed,

Read my reply to Khalid above. Forget traditional Islam. Seriously, have you delved into it? In so many ways it’s outdated, broken and seriously rotten. Let’s stop revering and spending energy defending it please.

Why do people need to be bound and caged by a rigid traditionalism based on archaic man-made frameworks that were created hundreds of years ago?

More reason and rationality are what the Muslim world needs.

I understand that you’re motivated by good intentions, but I find it disturbing that instead of harshly criticizing what has happened, you dedicate more effort to the defense of traditional Islam instead.

By the same token, why don’t you find it disturbing that Mona dedicated more effort to the promotion of her views on religion than on harshly criticizing what has happened? (I don’t fault Mona for this; she is trying to make a point with her column, and obviously, no one is defending this murder.) I am here to respond rationally to the substance of this column, not to share my emotions in a vacuum.

Shaikh Abdal Hakim is nowhere near as popular or well-known as al-Qaradawi, who by the way, advocates lots of heinous and repulsive things.

Popularity and authenticity are not the same thing. He is certainly far more learned about traditional Islam (and pretty much any other topic) than the YouTube imams. The Common Word initiative, of which he is a major part, shows that authentic traditionalists are indeed widespread and influential.

(Incidentally, it seems like Muzzammil Hassan himself was a progressive Muslim, much more so than his wife. So why not blame progressiveness for his vile actions?)

I notice that you have no qualms linking to MEMRI, despite their known affiliations with the IDF and their propensity for dishonesty; very curious for a man who supposedly prizes rationality and objectivity. Your involvement with the cesspool known as Pajamas Media — the very right-wing zealots Mona rightly criticizes — is also rather telling. You won’t find much reason and rationality there.

Coming from a liberal, non-religious background myself, I’ve been very far down the libertarian road. I know where it leads, and it’s not necessarily to a better world. Right now, you seem giddy, a la Hirsi-Ali, with your newfound discovery of rudimentary liberal thought, but if you can get over your own ego, you will eventually discover its limitations. At that point, you may begin to understand what is genuinely valuable and necessary about traditional religion.

@ Khalid

I don’t think you understand what has happened, Margari Aziza said it best in one sentence “How could we have allowed someone like Muzzammil Hassan, a Muslim man of questionable moral character with legal documentation of a history of abuse, to rise to such a position of leadership?” She further notes Zerqa Abid comment “Even with this bad reputation, horrible background and lack of experience in media market, he still got the stage at the most reputable American Muslim conventions. Our leaders and established organizations did not bother to vet him. No questions or flags were raised about him. He was introduced at these conventions with huge respect and the Muslim community was told to give him generous funds for Bridges TV.”

http://azizaizmargari.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/how-lack-of-accountability-led-to-rise-of-a-monster/#comments

Why were our leaders and established organizers silent with Mr. Hassan in the past? Their silence has caused some harm. We should have never embraced a man who had committed “severe domestic violence and abuses” but we did.

Laila,

I do understand what has happened. What Zerqa Abid says is correct — if this man was known to be abusive, then he should not have had any leadership role in the Muslim community. (One might also ask why some of the people who knew him to be abusive, including Zerqa Abid herself, didn’t raise their voice in loud protest before this happened. The answer of course is that no one could foresee the depth of his depravity; Aasiya herself defended Muzzammil’s reputation because the cause of Bridges TV was a good one. The police were already well aware of the situation, and they weren’t able to prevent this. Who else would one notify?)

Also, note that the North American Muslim community is not wholly or simply “traditional”, strictly speaking. It is a complex, murky blend of modern Americana, various immigrant customs, various theologies from the wacky to the traditional to the modernist, local politics and personalities and so on. I’m not defending this “community”.

My point is simply that Mona’s black-and-white view of evil-regressive-backward Islam vs. lovely-modernist-progressive Islam is a careless oversimplification that unfairly lumps together traditionalists and radical extremists, thus libeling the bulk of traditional Muslims, including people like Aasiya Zubair herself.

Khalid,

why don’t you find it disturbing that Mona dedicated more effort to the promotion of her views on religion

Because religion is part of this unfortunate case. The murder after all headed a TV station meant to improve the image of Islam and Muslims in America. More importantly, he was a *respected* figure in the Muslim community. Why? Because we Muslims have serious accountability issues within our communities. We need better standards and we should call a spade a spade. Honor, fear of anti-Muslim bigotry, and imams who pay lip service shouldn’t stop us from holding our so-called leadership accountable.

Popularity and authenticity are not the same thing.

Obviously, but then again, what is authentic traditionalism? Qaradawi aside, ever really delved into the misogynist mind of al-Ghazali and his work (which in today’s context by the way is in many ways archaic and outdated)? What about his attacks on rationality and free will, accusing people like Ibn Rushd of heresy so he could get rid of them, and undermining the type of thinking that made the golden age of Islam golden in the first place?

Ghazali is the most respected traditionalist theologian in Islam. And as far as I’m concerned, his work and what he stood for represents authentic traditional Islam. Not yours, which seems like a a better liberal strain.

I notice that you have no qualms linking to MEMRI

Apparently it was started by an ex-Mossad dude. I know their background and their real mission. Ain’t blind to it.

The link is not an endorsement and while they propagate lots of heinous views from the Arab and Muslim world, I’ve also discovered thanks to them sane liberal voices of reform I would otherwise have never known. Hence, the link.

your involvement with the cesspool known as Pajamas Media — the very right-wing zealots Mona rightly criticizes — is also rather telling.

Oh Khalid, Google “ad hominem” dude. Argue against my words if you have a good argument, because trying to play the “guilt by association” game is silly.

PJM is indeed full of lots of repulsiveness, but not all of it. I’ve had lots of pleasant experiences there writing about Sudan and defending Muslims from monolithic smears. Just because it’s got lots of right-wing zealots is no reason for me to pack and leave or give up sharing my views there to those who are willing to listen.

Seems like that’s the approach you prefer. “Oh, those haters, boohoo, I’m not gonna write for them.”

Coming from a liberal, non-religious background myself, I’ve been very far down the libertarian road. I know where it leads, and it’s not necessarily to a better world.

Not sure if you’re a recent Muslim convert, but hey, I myself coming from a religious traditionalist background, have been very far down the traditionalist road. I know where it leads, and it’s not necessarily to a better world.

The way I see it, authentic traditional Islam is a cage for the mind and as anti-freedom of conscience, anti-freedom of thought and anti-freedom of speech.

Like I said Khalid, I sense good intentions but we’ve clearly
got opposing views on traditional Islam and what defines it.

Salam.

Laila,

I myself hold some issues personally against ISNA, while I do recognize them as a legitimate organization, I have seen far too many controversial stances and irresponsibility on their part to support them so on that case, I do agree with you that this maniac should not have been allowed to speak with the knowledge that he and his wife were going through a divorce. The only explanation I can gather is that this was an internal matter that they had expected would have gotten resolved between this coward and the martyr that Mrs. Aasiya Hassan has become, I dont think anyone had expected such a heinous crime.

My only issue was that there has been a widespread drive that I myself am aware of in my own community as well as else where through my personal contacts where American Muslims have been coming out to speak out about sensitive issues that shouldn’t even be sensitive to begin with in our community. I think Mona has placed the blame on the wrong spot by pointing out that Muslim leaders in America have been defending Islam against the Islamophobes and not discussing domestic abuse. Of course they’re defending Islam, the religion is not to be blamed. It seems to me that Muslims are the only group of people in America where the religion is thrown in regardless of the motivation of the crime. No one else has to go through and defend their faith or beliefs in front of the public in relation to crimes, but we have to because Muslims have been placed under that microscope. However, to claim that nothing is being done about it is making a dangerous generalization about a diverse American Muslim community.

I would encourage everyone to view the lecture Sheikh Hamza Yusuf had released in relation to this crime.

Sudanese Thinker,

I think you’re getting the ‘philosophy’ of the Salafi mixed with traditional Islamic thought.

Laila, the additional background information you have provided on Hassan’s previous marriages make this horrible murder even more tragic.

Ahmed M, how so? I’m all ears if you care to elaborate.

Salam.

Because religion is part of this unfortunate case. The murder after all headed a TV station meant to improve the image of Islam and Muslims in America.

There is an odd irony there, yes, but as the facts are revealing, religion (amazingly) apparently plays no role in this killing. Even secular women’s groups are stating that this is clearly a case of domestic abuse, not a religion-related killing. Also, it has been confirmed that he was on anti-depressants, which are known to cause suicidal/homocidal thoughts in some cases. And perhaps most importantly, we know that the man himself wasn’t religiously observant. He may have been a Muslim by “progressive Muslim” standards, which allow anyone to self-identify as a Muslim regardless of what they believe and how they act, and which attaches much significance to his modern education, but by traditional standards he certainly was not worthy the respect accorded him. (I think people are also forgetting that many people might have supported Bridges TV and Muzzammil simply because they respected Aasiya, who did have a genuine and admirable religious impulse.)

Because we Muslims have serious accountability issues within our communities. We need better standards and we should call a spade a spade. Honor, fear of anti-Muslim bigotry, and imams who pay lip service shouldn’t stop us from holding our so-called leadership accountable.

Sure, I fully agree with this. Standards are lax. The problematic aspect of “progressive Islam” is that it lends itself to lax standards; that’s why its own leadership structure imploded even though it represented a far smaller number of people.

Ghazali is the most respected traditionalist theologian in Islam. And as far as I’m concerned, his work and what he stood for represents authentic traditional Islam. Not yours, which seems like a a better liberal strain.

Ghazali is important, but he’s not canonical. If you read this excerpt from The Cambridge Companion to Classical Islam you’ll see that there is space for a much wider range of figures. (I’m no expert on Ghazali, but I have read comments from him that are generally favorable, for example, his claim that daughters are better than sons. And it is he who is largely responsible for solidifying the validity of sufism, which cultivates high regard for the feminine.)

The link is not an endorsement
Filing it on your shortlist under the name “awesome linkies” is certainly an endorsement. Seeing Sam Harris there didn’t inspire much confidence either — not because he is ‘anti-Islamic’, but because he’s so incredibly sloppy and dishonest in his claims. Same goes for CATO and Atlas, which preach an anti-sufi doctrine. I’m not blaming you for their sins, but this selection does say something about you.

That said, I’ve skimmed through your archives and you’re not as contaminated as those associations would suggest. At 22, I was probably more libertarian/anti-religious than you. Keep searching!

The way I see it, authentic traditional Islam is a cage for the mind and as anti-freedom of conscience, anti-freedom of thought and anti-freedom of speech.

For some people following only an ossified husk of tradition, it can be. But authentic traditional Islam is very much a lively, engaging thing. A certain amount of structure is needed to make real judgement or freedom possible — read Allan Bloom on tolerance, this sufi ‘walnut’ parable, or even Chomsky’s cage analogy. Also, see the Amman Message and the Topkapi Declaration for current traditional persectives on these subjects.

take care.

Ahmed,

Mona didn’t say nothing is being done about it, but NOT ENOUGH is being done. More can be done but denial hampers this process. I too am very familiar with domestic abuse in my life and the process of denial of responsibility. But just who is responsible for what has happened? Everybody is responsible! From Mr.Hassan to the Muslim conventions, the police and our legal system ineffective restraining orders, to pop culture like Chris Brown fans who have supported his actions. We as a collective entity are all being insensitive to the pain that members of our society experience. I personally know how hard it is to fight a man who beats you, but it feels like my community is beating on me too for speaking about it because I fear the consequences they face from xenophobia. It is difficult to speak out, I’m already marginalized, and excluded from participation. You say so many Muslim men are voicing against this abuse like Sheikh Hamza Yusuf but it would mean so much more to hear it from a woman like his wife. This might be strange to understand but their voices (men) don’t count as much as a women’s because she might better understand my vulnerability, her words have value to offer me. It is like an apartheid of suffering, because the majority of men will not experience domestic abuse and violence from their partners. We don’t equally voice it for that reason we don’t equally suffer it. This crime is like the many forms of inequality women face and this is what really hurts. Will our Imans and leaders work to change our relationship with women to be more inclusive of them, because this has been stolen from us and we want it back. Or will they use their words like makeup to hide the bruising, because it will not address the real problem. Everybody was involved in Aasiya Hassan murder, and like equality we must all share this crime. It doesn’t mean that we are now peronally in the wrong, but we acknowledge the wrong done and sadly own that these perpetrators are part of our communities.

Nobody can heal the pain and trauma Aasiya Hassan has endured and millions of other women but we want hope that we will be treated with respect and equality now and in the future.

I don’t want “collective guilt” as woman I want “shared burden” and “shared pain”. I too don’t expect my Muslim community to feel guilty for what Mr.Hassan has done however if things haven’t changed after Aasiya Hassan murder then I expect us to feel guilty.

“She took apart that controversial verse used to justify violence against women ”

I would be interested in what she had to say, please share.

Oh and btw Ahmad, there were no Salafis around during the time of Ghazali.

Cheers dude.

Mona, I forgot to join the other commenter in thanking you from sharing from your own abuse experience. I have a similar past, and I think it is women with such a background have even greater motivation to see other women protected. It’s not easy to talk about, I applaud you.
Fight the good fight.

“They forget that the singer Rihanna cancelled her concert in Malaysia – coincidentally set to take place on the first day of Musawah – after she complained to police that fellow singer and boyfriend Chris Brown beat her up. They forget that Scott Peterson murdered his pregnant wife.

Violent men who aren’t Muslim? Who knew!

The only abusive man I’ve known was my ex-husband, a Floridian with German-Irish roots who converted to Islam to marry me but never practiced the religion. The day when I called the police to complain that he had thrown me out of our home and taken my car keys and credit card was the most humiliating in my life.”

Hold on there Mona; please don’t force anyone to take a good hard look at themselves before pointing fingers. We wouldn’t want them doing some serious self evaluation now would we? Anyway, I’m glad you pointed this out, as people of various racial, cultural, social, tribal groups have the tendency to exert their superiority complex every chance they get. We tend to forget about the Ike Turners, Scott Petersons, Bobby Browns (in fact, with his situation, in my community, when referring to a dysfunctional, crazy couple, we call said couple “Bobby and Whitney”, just how messed up it was), and let us not forget OJ (karma got him real good).

However, I must say to those who attack what you are saying about the traditionalist community you are speaking out against; when I, as a non-Muslim American, read this article, I did not get a sense of this being a moral fight between Traditionalist Islam versus Progressive Islam (yeah!). Rather, I felt Mona was saying it is not being spoken against ENOUGH. If I, a non-Muslim American, am not hearing or seeing the community come out and say “this is wrong, this is not who we are and what we are about and not only will we not tolerate it, we will fight diligently against it.” If I’m not hearing or seeing that from Muslims in this country alone, then you are not doing enough. If I have to come to a blog by a journalist whom I did not even know existed a year ago, read about organizations that I did not know existed a year ago from a poster who stops by to drop a line every once in a while, you’re not doing enough. I don’t feel that the Muslim community is subject to the American Majority at large and should be held accountable every time some nut job has flash backs to “old country” but don’t come out and try to assure us that the latest tragedy has no relation to Islam and completely ignore the tragedy in itself. That is not doing enough. Continue to sweep these things under the rug and I will guarantee you frustrated Muslim women will start going postal. Women might have a higher tolerance level than me but that does not mean it does not have a limit and that women do not have a fuse that won’t go off.

As a Somali Muslim…this is one thing that bothers me immensely. Now I will not jump to conclusion that Somali women do not suffer domestic violence: They DO!

However I must admit that the history of my country and its take on Islam has always been moderate especially when dealing with women and their rights. I have been told many times that the things that I could do many other Muslim women wouldn’t even dare…and so I would look at them like there were insane, because the things I was doing were what any other person would do…school/work/social outing and so on. But that wasn’t the problem as I have come to learn later on.

I am independent and my reliance on men is very minimal…so I like to do things my own way… and according to the Quran and Islam…there is nothing harem with what I am doing…so with issues such as Honor killing, and domestic violence I believe it stems from historical cultural practices that are heinous and wrong (plain and simple)…and I give a big ups to women from such regions who stand against it and fight it…

However I will also state plain and clear this is clearly in-Islamic and barbaric…

In Somali we have a cultural practice that is called FGM. Because people who undergo such painful experiences have a belief that this is the final stage to a women’s purification…and because it has been practiced for centuries before Islam emerged (Ancient Egyptian practice), its hard for many people whom mostly are nomadic and uneducated to let go immediately and abandon such practice…however we have to develop a proper and meaningful way to educate these people, in which I believe is the only solution. Not Criticism.

When I heard about the story of the young Pakistani girl who was choked to death by her father because she decided to take of her hijab, I was mortified…because

a) As a young woman being born and living in the West, its isn’t easy growing up a Muslim, and following Islam according to its proper form…compared to people who live in Muslim countries .

b) My parents (May God Bless Them) taught me Islam and as a youngun and I enjoyed practicing fasting, and praying, but never have they forced me to do something that I wasn’t ready to do. And alhamduliah I have come to realizing and explore Islam on my own terms that I have rightfully and independently chose to whether the hijab on my own.

In the end this father committed the 2nd most grave sin in Islam…MURDER, in vain, for something that could have been resolved. Also he has to come to this conclusion and those men like him that, not everyone is going to practice Islam according to the way you want it, and even if it goes to the extent where his daughter did not want to be a Muslim anymore…she is mature enough to make her own decisions…let her be…that is if you have done your part and taught her when she was young, the best you can do is what our Prophet has done to his uncle : DUA and prayer.

Yes so what I wanted to say is…please be more specific when writing your news pieces…as in explain to those readers who and exactly are these men committing such heinous crimes in the name of Islam…

The last thing I want to be associated with as a Muslim woman is a psychotic- over- protective- for nothing- egocentric- hypocrite who beheads his wife…

Disgusting!

I heard your interview on the abc national australia the other day. it was great! it was challenging and insightful. I disagree with you on some points, but…..
What a breath of fresh air!
Keep up the faboulous work,

M

I have to make another comment, and I’m sorry
if its not going to be terribly constructive, but I do not see this being ‘a disabled only site’, so why are ‘khalid’ and ‘confused’ so prominently featured here?!